Expert Breakfast Report for Oct. 2nd 2024: Constantin Grigorut, Senior Lecturer, French Programme, Languages and Culture.

A somewhat bitter-sweet but fascinating story of a Romanian National who has lived in Canada, the U.S. and New Zealand. Now about to retire, Constantin told us of the huge importance of empathy, and how very much he owes to our students.

[NOTE: All comments in square brackets are those of the scribe].

An Odyssey

“I was born in Romania, long, long ago, and I traveled around the world to be here for 20 years to teach French for the University of Otago. It's been an honour to have students - Kiwi students, and international students like you. I was very happy here, and it's time to say goodbye.

"Now, I will say goodbye to you, and I will tell you some sort of my odyssey. It all started soon after the revolution in Romania (1). My family and I emigrated to Canada, first to Eastern Canada. I didn't know what to do there, so, I said to myself, ‘All right, I will get back to what I know the best.’"

"What I knew, what I still know the best, is to read books and interpret them, to search and study books, knowledge, wisdom, and beauty. So, I went back to the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, a wonderful city, between mountains and the ocean. But, as is often the case, after gaining my PhD there, I couldn't find a job at that University. In our field, literary studies, it's not easy to find a job right after a PhD, because that job is already taken by your supervisors!"

:In Vancouver my wife worked for a subsidiary of the Zoll Medical Corporation, and in 2000, they closed the Vancouver branch and offered her a job in Boulder (where they had their headquarters). Our 10 year old son stayed with me in Vancouver. After my PhD was finished, we also moved to Boulder, Colorado, but, at the University there, all the jobs in my field of expertise were taken by others, who were a bit older and were already there. So, I started searching for part-time jobs, and I had been offered some crumbs here and there, a little bit in a Presbyterian college, a little bit in a Community college. Then, one day in 2004, searching internationally, I saw the position at Otago, and I was lucky to get it. It's hard for me to say ‘successful’, because it was more like luck. There were more than 200 candidates for the position, I learned later, some of them were even from France. I was not from France, and I was lucky to get the position, just lucky. My wife, she's a computer guru, and she said, ‘Okay, let's move to New Zealand, because I can find a job anywhere in the world in my field.’ I don't know if right now it's the same situation in computer science, but back then it was.”

Kiwi Students, and Creating a Creative Writing Paper

“So we moved to New Zealand, and I had wonderful colleagues, and a wonderful Head of Department, - and a Department! And above all, great, great students. There is a difference. I get asked all the time, ‘What do you see in Kiwi students, what's the difference?’ Well, not only Kiwi students, but also the International students that I had. It was probably, on the one hand, because of the liberal philosophy of this institution, one of the most liberal I ever knew. To give you an example, here I was able to create an advanced French paper based on creative writing in French, which is not at all orthodox teaching. And another thing, very liberal, was that my PhD students, PhD candidates that I supervised, they were allowed to write in French, while the other Kiwi universities, and in Australia, they are expected to write their PhD thesis on French studies, but the language is expected to be English."

"But here, it was easy to go to the buildings across campus, and then to say hello to the people in the PhD office, and they would kind of go to my office and write a letter, explaining why your candidate should write better in French than in English. So this was starting to see this openness. You know, they were very, very liberal people in terms of understanding this freedom of thought. I don't know if it's still the same today. A lot has changed. But as I said, you know, this I will probably have to put an end to my introduction. Above all, it was my students who made me happy. They are really, really great students. So again, I was asked, ‘What do you see in these students?’ I said, ‘Well, what I see here is the fact that they are open to the world. They open their soul, their heart, their mind to the world. Because we are here in New Zealand, somehow confined geographically on an island or two islands. But because of this, everybody is watching the world. Opening the door, the heart, and the soul, and the mind to the world. To know, to learn the world."

"It was not the same in North America. It was not the same in Europe. I've been teaching in Europe, I've been teaching in North America. I've been teaching here, but here it is different. And the world is not the same, let's say, in Central America and North America - because they are sitting on a continent. And when the Americans sit on a continent, they are self-sufficient. All generations are self-sufficient. Okay, it's enough that I know about Nebraska, why should I know about French culture? Even at university, it’s enough if you learn how to ask in French airports, ‘Où sont les toilettes? Where are the toilets?’ But here, I was able to convince my students that, okay, we can go a different way. And we worked on creative writing. In those other countries I was never tempted to create an enterprise in literature. It was enough to play at a very high level with this wonderful language. I had students writing short stories, even poems and plays. One student in 2007 even created as a project on my paper a musical cassette, with all the lyrics in French, and music, French music. And I played it at the French embassy and they were very impressed."

"So that's why I was happy. Because of people like you. And thank you so much for inviting me. I was ready to exit, say ‘Goodbye’ to this university without any special moment. Because, more or less, the truth is that I'm retiring after a ‘management of change’ - whatever that means. The [French] department is not a department anymore. It's just a tiny programme. And I have to leave. - But this is a wonderful moment. I would like to thank you for inviting me. Thank you [to Elizabeth]. And thank you for being here to listen to my story, my short story. I'm also writing short stories. But this was not fiction. This was true. Thank you very much."

"Do you have some questions? Try to ask me, but don't be too tough!”

The Central Importance of Humanities

Q. “You’ve obviously had a long career. For you, what parts of student life stayed with you throughout your career in Education, and what parts do you recommend that we, as students, follow too?“

A. “Well, it's a fantastic question. I'm not a church goer. But my mother was, and I love my mother. She passed away last year. She was with me here, in New Zealand. But she was a mystic. Because, mainly, she suffered a lot during her life. It's a long story. But, in a way, because of her mysticism, she tried to give me some sort of education. She was never schooled. She didn't go to school. And her personal life was tragic. But she tried to teach me, since I was a little boy, to teach me that God is never ‘out there’. We cannot go and look for God using, I don't know, cosmic engines. A billionaire recently traveled with some other billionaires to outer space. But, as my mother told me, God cannot be searched for in the clouds. Or over the clouds. Or in the stars. And we should not search for God. We should just open our hearts and let God come inside. And I found this very interesting because she tried to educate me, since I was a little boy, to a humanistic perspective. And that was the part that really gave me wings. I was not young anymore when we landed in Canada. But, okay, ‘I will do something with my life.’ I don't give up. And I am also an Aries - stubborn. Elizabeth knows that I still play football at my age!"

"But the humanistic dimension, the human, humanity, this was a magic word for me. And I really believed in this. All citizens need humanities. Humanities is so important in life. It starts with God. Just let God get into your heart. This is . . . human. And something with wisdom that we have been offered by writers, great painters, cultures. Humanities are so important in life. Unfortunately, lately, we see that tertiary institutions across the world, all over the world, they look at divisions of humanities like the Cinderellas of Tertiary Education. They shouldn't. I remember a couple of years ago, the Medical Sciences, they used to pay us, you know, in Humanities, to give some special topics, papers. Because to those students, in medical science, they are so important. We cannot live only with science. And now, I think they are on the wrong step. And I hope it will come back."

"But I have had students from across the world now, from all other departments, not only from humanities. And they were great, as I said. They were really great.“

Q. ”Do you mind if I ask my question in French?”

“Absolutely.”

“I like to practice my French.”

So this next question was both asked and answered in French before the plebs among us were given a translation:

A: “So, I was asked what is my preferred country to retire in and I said this was already selected. We are preparing to move to France, southern France especially. So, it's southeast between the Mediterranean Sea and the Pyrenees mountains. Close to the Spanish border, because we can cross the border and buy groceries way cheaper!  To give an example, my wife, who works with computers and also with accounting, did some research. For the same groceries that we buy here in New Zealand, in the South of France we pay 30% less. But in Spain, you can add another 30%. So, she did some math and if we have bought our house, we can be very safe, live comfortably on 800-900 euros monthly. Including the energy, our power, phone, internet, everything. And we would certainly sell the house here and move there. That would be the country of my choice because of the culture and because of the socialist dimension. The care for the people. No matter if it's government on the right or government on the left or government on the centre. They care about people. They say it's a little bit better than in New Zealand.”

Constantin went on to talk about the ‘Carte vitale’, which is the national French health insurance card. This covers about 70% of a person’s health care costs. Most people also take out medical insurance to cover the remainder. Also, since he and his family are EU citizens, it would be very easy for them to buy a house and settle there.

“It's a little bit more difficult for the British . . . I'm in touch with an agent who, actually, she is a Kiwi. She moved to Australia first and there married a French guy, and then they moved to Carcassonne - an interesting, beautiful fortress city. It's also one of our top list. It's a wonderful, wonderful place. Our agent found for us a beautiful house for 200,000 euros. What can you buy for 200,000 euros in Dunedin? I don't dare to ask. Or in Vancouver, let's say, because we are Canadians as well. In Vancouver you could buy half of a garage for that. Not even half of a garage."

The Castle at Carcasonne — Image by: John Cross

"I will land in France with a medal on my top, which is a great honour. A medal opened by the Ministry of Culture in France. [Chevalier dans l'Ordre des Palmes Académiques](2). That will certainly make our landing easier!" [I have inset a picture of the medal on the upper left of the opening picture].

Q. “I think how the Humanities is taught to people in medical sciences, and that kind of made me think of how empathy is taught in medicine. And I was just wondering, do you think empathy can be taught to people? Or do you think it's more an innate feature?”

A. “It’s such a great question! It's very important. It's the question of the moment for everybody in this world, when I look at different tragedies that happen in this world right now. But we need empathy. It was one of my mother's concerns when I was a child was the empathy to look and to see if someone suffers or is in trouble. To understand the trouble. And to despise the bullies in school and all. And to be kind to everybody. You know, I have to say, unfortunately, that too many of my compatriots don't think that empathy is important. And not only this, but there is an ultra-nationalistic perspective in Romania right now. Where they believe that it's really important that Romania should be only for Romanians. And not only for Romanians but for Christian Orthodox Romanians. White Christian Orthodox only. And this is fascistic. It's an echo of what happened in the 30s in Germany. No wonder, because politically Romania was aligned with Germany back then. But during my youth, you know, I had to live in a village where we had some Roma citizens. I don't know if you know the Roma ethnic group. [Known as Romanies in Britain]. They are called gypsies across Europe. And they were considered by others not even as second class., but as third class citizens. I was playing with them. They were my friends and I couldn't understand why people were treating them like this. At some point, one of them was savagely beaten. And it was like this, you know. That was the luck of the game. Because I've seen people suffering, but people turning their back to suffering. And this is so important. I recently had a chat with a Romanian doctor who is retired. And he had strange opinions about being a doctor. I am not going to enter into the case we were talking about. We were talking about something that happens right now. In this world. A tragedy. And his opinion regarding that tragedy was that . . . It doesn't matter who I treat. But not because there is empathy. Because ‘I am a professional. And I would be ready to treat someone and then to deliver them to the political power that may hang the guy, after I treat him or her.’ I said, ‘But you cannot do this. You need empathy when you operate.’ He denied it. And I was shocked. So, I always try to learn from them. Even as such a tiny child like this one. It was important. Or, the way - I will never forget it - the way that they treated my friend, the gypsy, in that village. The way that they did beat kids. But they were not educated. They didn't have any education from their parents to let them know."

"You know - fascists. There is an important film maker in Italy, Fellini, who said that there is fascism in our hearts - it’s hidden there. Poisoning human beings. If we are not able to use the powerful weapon, empathy, to fight that devil inside . . . So, Shakespeare said ‘Hell is empty and the devils are all here’. My mother used to say,  ‘Unfortunately, the devil is inside. If we open the heart to God, then we chase the devil.' And this is an important lesson. Empathy. We need it. Racism - bigotism - fascism. They are grains of evil. They represent the devil. And empathy is a weapon, a powerful weapon. Everything is a lesson. Everything can be taught. Everything."

"Education is so important. Starting with what your parents tell you. And then what your school will teach you. And then, little by little, society can gain that empathy level. And social. But if we don't have this, if we don't pay attention to the evil, to the devil, that's not only out there, as Shakespeare said, but also my mom's belief the devil is inside. That's terrible."

"I was saying to my students yesterday, that I learned so much from books, and I learned from one tiny little book, so much. A tiny book full of wisdom. ‘The Little Prince, by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (3). I was telling my students, that one of my dreams in my life was to teach a paper based entirely on this book. It didn't happen. I don't know why. But I would have really liked to teach that tiny little book. It's so full of wisdom and empathy inside. Sometimes reading a book is so important."

"Religion, quite often, has been manipulated. Texts have been manipulated. But you can see it when you look at some parts of the sacred texts. Where empathy is so important. Look at what Jesus did. And look what history, through manipulation of religion, did during the Middle Ages. And then you can look at the other religions as well. And it's the same. Denying the empathy, and celebrating the king. When my grandpa used to sacrifice a chicken, for my grandma to make soup, I used to hide my head between pillows because I was so stupid - I was a little boy then. The whole day I was thinking that the chicken would cry so loud that it would make me cry too. - But I did cry a couple of times for sacrificing the chickens that I really loved. I could never touch, harm not only people, but also animals.”

Gianni (Johnny) the Cat

“I had a cat. Johnny was his name. Very philosophical. Full of philosophy. And then ten years ago, my cat started touching me here [indicating the area of his neck under his chin] with his head. And it was so lovely. Suddenly Johnny was so lovely and touching me all the time. And then one day I felt something in my throat and then I went to see the doctor. And the doctor said, ‘Hmm, cancer.’ And then, later, I was not able to do the same for my Johnny. I just couldn't see him, feel the cancer, the way that he did. And it was too late because when saw he wouldn't eat anymore we went to the vet. And it was cancer, but advanced cancer. We had to put him down. I was not able to do the same for my cat. But I felt the empathy. So powerful. That was a powerful experience.”

Q. “You said you speak several languages. How many do you speak?”

A. “Romanian, Italian, French, English - and some Spanish. I can read Spanish very well. And also, Gipsy. I learned from my friends -  Well, they don’t have a language. But the more languages you learn, the more you approach God. God, you know,  is when you know about the other's culture. That's why God speaks all the languages. And in the Bible it says, in the beginning was the Word. What I mean to do is to see how you can translate this. [All of this was said with a smile . . . ].  I was always passionate about translation. I write poetry and then translate my own crazy things.”

Q. “You talked a lot about religion. You talked about how it can be a filter that can help us deal with things that aren’t so great in our lives. But you also talked about how it can be used in a negative way. Would you consider that religion is like a two-edged sword?”

A. “It is. Everything is a two-edged sword, including religion. When I say everything, I include philosophy as well. Look at what happened with Nietzsche's philosophy. How it was used, a double-edged sword. So yes, every religion has its own philosophy, every religion can be used - by dirty politics, in the search for power. Always the power is very important to them. But this is, to use a metaphorical expression, the work of the devil. Absolutely. It's just undermining, it's sabotaging religion. And it starts when they started copying texts from one language to another, and then adding. I would recommend you a beautiful book. One of the most beautiful books I have ever read (4).  It's ‘King David's Report’ by Stefan Heym. They have it at the library at Knox College, the only place where you can find it. You may find also an online version of the book."

"Stefan Heym was a very interesting writer. He was moving between Eastern Germany and Western Germany in the 60s. He wrote this novel in the 70s. Which was by a miracle translated in Romania, ‘a miracle’ because that's one of the most authoritarian regimes. But in King David's Report, you see how the power decides how to manipulate religion. It's a fantastic novel. I won’t tell you the story because there is no point - and you should discover it. It's a great, great story. And it's so beautifully written. The style, alone! For me, it's one of the best books ever. I had a good friend, - I still have him - he is in the Department of English. Professor Chris Ackerley. You have probably heard of him. He was a specialist in Beckett studies. And he was so surprised to discover what I recommended him. We'd been together to conferences. We were travelling to Tokyo, and were talking about books, and I told him about this book. And he went straight to Knox College to get it, and he read it. He said, ‘Constantin, how in the world did I not know about this book? I'm so old and I never read it. Interesting! It's a fantastic book!’“

Q. “You told us about starting a paper in French creative writing. So what are the main differences between creative writing in English and creative writing in French?”

A. “You mean with regard to what happens within the Department of English? Because they had creative writing in English. But it was based on something different. For me it was to take the writers to play with the language at a very high level, linguistically. For the English department, their creative writing approach was totally different. Because they used different styles, including technical writing. It is not the same, because English is the native language spoken here. And they did use it, put it to good use. But from praxis, a practical point of view, for me it was just to speculate inside the linguistic dimension. And Elizabeth knows, because I explained this philosophy, this approach, is based mainly on a playful way to take a style and to switch it into a different one. We were taking writers in French. But I was surprised to see that some of the students, many of them, they came with nice, very nice pieces of work. I had a student who, I'm talking about empathy, and very profound feelings. That student, she produced a book, a small collection of poems dedicated to her mother who died when she was just ten. Beautiful poems. I did not expect that. I was surprised. The intention was just to explore a little bit of the linguistics of high-level French. To put the grammar, to put it in the context. In English, they already know the grammar. They come up with different approaches.”

Q. “You said you moved around a lot. What was the biggest sort of culture shock you experienced when you were living in those countries?”

A. “Well, I didn't have a lot of shock, I would say, because I was lucky to move to beautiful places. To give you an example, when we moved to Canada, I selected a PhD at the University of British Columbia because I was lucky, my wife, she had a job in Vancouver, and Vancouver is a wonderful place, it's beautiful. Only that it's so expensive. Then another beautiful place when she moved to Colorado, to Boulder - another wonderful, beautiful place. More than 300 days, sunny days, you know, every year in Boulder. And the flowers, and very, very interesting people, open-minded people, you know. They said that the city was basically built by former hippies. Now we're especially seeing a computer, that is a computer-science type, in Boulder. But then it was full of music, blues, you know. Then here, it's also a nice city, well, less the wind, I would say! But . . . No, we did not experience . . . well, yes. Yes. The shock that I had was when we traveled to Ivory Coast in Africa. And I was so shocked to see the difference, culturally, and also the poverty. And they say, it's one of the best countries in Africa. And then we said, if this was one of the best countries, then I don't know about the others. But we were shocked there. Everything was strange. I will never forget the market in Abidjan. We were invited to the market. And they had hundreds of thousands of chickens in cages, dead. And it was so stinky! And people there, they are nice. We wondered, how can they be so nice and smile? You see, they have a lot of refugees from all over Africa. In some shanty areas, you know. And on the other side, you see walls with guards with guns. And the rich families. It's such a shocking contrast. We'd been to a restaurant -and there were locks there, huge locks. And first, there is the armed guard who came to us. They would look at us and say, ‘You look OK.’ -  OK means white, European. So, and then . . . Of course, the owner [mimes making a phone call] ‘OK, we have a customer or two customers. Shall I let them in?’ ‘ Yes.’ And then they open the door. You go in the restaurant. That was a shocking experience.”

[Elizabeth thanked Constantin, and his response was as follows:]

“I am the one who says, ‘Thanks.’ It was a magic moment for me. I will never forget it. It was great. So . . . In the end, I have to say goodbye. Thank you so much. - And it came from students. Thank you.”

1. [The Romanian revolution was a period of violent civil unrest in Romania during December 1989 as a part of the revolutions of 1989 that occurred in several countries around the world, primarily within the Eastern Bloc. - More on this at  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_revolution]

2. ’Knight of the Order of Academic Palms’, by The French Ministry of Culture for his work as the CIEF (Conseill International d'Études Francophones) Regional Representative for Asia/Pacific.

3. There is a copy of ‘The Little Prince’ in the fiction section of St. Margaret’s library. It is the second most translated work ever published, behind only the Bible.

4. We do not have a copy of ‘King Davids Report’ in our library, but I will certainly be trying to obtain one!

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Posted: Thursday October 3, 2024